"Nobody should be worse off so that I can be better off, but we have to change the structures together."

We met Mithu Sanyal. Just in time for International Women's Day on March 8. Even as a little girl, Mithu Sanyal dreamed of becoming a writer. However, she first completed a doctorate in cultural studies, worked as a journalist and wrote two highly acclaimed non-fiction books before publishing her first novel "Identitti". This was nominated for the German Book Prize, as was her second bestseller "Antichristie", which was published last fall 2024. In an interview, feminist Mithu Sanyal tells us what it's like to fulfill her childhood dream and why she believes that International Women's Day is still very important today.

Mithu, you are not only a feminist and successful writer, but also a cultural scientist, journalist and work for WDR and taz, for example. How did you get into literature?
I have always done literature. In the early 1990s, I founded the literature group "Offenbar 6/7" with other young authors. We did what was later called Social Beat and even later Spoken Word. At the time, I had published a very nice short story in an anthology and shortly afterwards I also had an agent. But the publishers said at the time: "Thank you, we already have an Indian woman." They were referring to the well-known writer and activist Arundhati Roy.

Your first book was therefore not fiction, but the non-fiction book "Vulva".
Exactly. When I wrote my doctoral thesis on the cultural history of the vulva, I didn't feel like paying for publication. I looked for a publisher for a revised, popular science version, which was then published by Wagenbach. "Vulva" was definitely a publishing success that sold well for a non-fiction book in a small publishing house.

Your second book "Rape" was also very popular, but polarized ...
At first, nobody wanted to publish the book. The publishers were very reluctant. There were two sticking points: Firstly, I questioned the then still omnipresent concept that the victim must be forever broken after a rape. - Mind you, I take trauma very seriously, but it's also important to talk about healing. - The other problem for publishers was that I also wrote about male victims. When "Vergewaltigung" was published by Nautilus at the beginning of 2016, there was an immediate reference to the sexual assaults on New Year's Eve 2015/2016 in Cologne. My readings were suddenly all about asylum policy - and I was repeatedly interviewed as an expert on television. There are sometimes coincidences: You write about a topic that is suddenly politically explosive and, in my case, suddenly highly racially charged.

Our interview is published on International Women's Day. As a feminist, what do you think about this day? Is it still relevant today?
I love International Women's Day, which was originally established to fight for the right to vote for everyone. Back then, there were also a lot of men who weren't allowed to vote. But I'm not just a feminist, I also work on many other issues such as racism and post-colonialism. For me, it all belongs together. International Women's Day is a historic, annually recurring day and an important journalistic occasion to take a closer look at what has changed in the past year. After all, the patriarchy oppresses us all in many different ways. There are only a few winners.

So you believe that men also suffer from the patriarchy?
Yes, of course. Men are disproportionately represented in the highest income brackets, but also among drug addicts, suicides, the homeless and in prisons. Even those who at first glance seem to benefit from patriarchy have to cut back on their personality first.

What do you mean?
There are many studies that show that we hug our sons less often than our daughters, that we talk to them less, that they receive less social warmth. That doesn't mean that men are the real victims, but that patriarchy affects everyone. Just in different ways and we simply know a lot more about the effects of patriarchy on women because feminists have done a lot of research into this.

How did you get into feminism?
My mother had cancer when I was eleven years old and after that she was very interested in complementary medicine. So we used to go to a women's bookshop because they had books on the women's health movement, esoteric guides, political theory, everything side by side. And that's how I came to feminism as a young woman. It was an incredible relief for me to realize that certain things didn't happen to me as a woman because I was somehow wrong, but because there were structural problems. And I wanted to change these structures.

We have now talked about Mithu Sanyal as a journalist and feminist. But you have also been known as a bestselling author for several years now. How did that come about?
As I said, I wanted to write literature as a child, even before I could write. I remember my mother reading Enid Blyton to me and I thought: I want to do that too, i.e. tell stories; but the book market wasn't open to my stories. And so it took me until I published "Identitti" in 2020, at the age of almost 50 ...

... which was very successful straight away.
My agent initially offered it to several publishers, who liked the book but thought it was unsaleable. Until Florian Kessler, editor at Hanser Verlag, finally dared to publish it.

Identitti" is about a young woman with Indian roots who is studying at Heinrich Heine University in Düsseldorf. How much Mithu Sanyal is in your main character Nivedita?
I am twice as old as Nivedita. "Identitti" is clearly not an autobiographical novel. But it is set in the milieu in which I grew up. And it deals with struggles that I have had all my life. Everyone thinks it's a book about cultural appropriation because the other main character pretends to be Indian. But for me, the topic is "Growing Up Mixed Race in Germany". In addition to processing my personal reflections, I also did a lot of research as a journalist and academic.

The novel has a very modern concept; in "Identitti", for example, you work with tweets that act as a means of communication between the reader and the outside world.
Yes, and the joke is that many people think I'm totally social media-savvy. But I can't even type on my cell phone. (Laughs.) So I asked real people to write the tweets for me that you can read in the book. And I guess that's actually a literary innovation. Otherwise, my novel is more in the tradition of Anglo-Saxon storytelling. So there are characters with names and backstories, there is a plot that is driven by dialog and, above all, a relatively high level of humor.

Is there no humor in German literature?
Of course there is, you only have to read Heinrich Heine. But since post-war literature, humor has been viewed with suspicion, along the lines of: Is this real literature if it's fun to read? I think it's a strange duplication to write about serious subjects in a serious form. Especially when I get emotionally deep, I have to steer against it stylistically so that it doesn't become melodrama. Rather, I wanted to find a form in which there are enough refractions to be able to follow emotionally and deal enthusiastically with a topic that you might otherwise not want to deal with.

Your second novel "Antichristie" was published last fall. What is it about?
The book is largely set in London and begins in 2022 at the time of the Queen's death, but then jumps back to 1906, to India House, which was ostensibly a boarding house for Indian students in London, but where Indian revolutionaries were in fact building bombs ...

This time there is obviously no personal connection.
I have never built bombs, but I still have an emotional connection to the subject. My father's old friends took part in the freedom struggle, even though they were children when India became independent. I know all the arguments about political violence from the left. And I could always hold on to the fact that we did the right thing, the non-violent resistance with Gandhi. That's why it was such a shock for me to find out that there was also armed resistance in India.

Overall, we are currently living in very challenging times. How do you see the future?
I don't despair because it is our political task not to despair, otherwise we will give our strength to the right. I assume that everything will be fine in the end, otherwise it's not the end. That's a quote from Oscar Wilde. Literature will definitely play a role in saving the world because it makes other, more diverse voices audible - and I am just one of many.

But a very present one: Your two novels "Identitti" and "Antichristie" were nominated for the German Book Prize. How does it feel when a childhood dream suddenly comes true?
Success in your early 50s is easier to deal with than in your mid-20s. I now have my everyday life, the children - and then the TV comes along and films you a bit. (Laughs.)

Let's come back to International Women's Day at the end of our conversation. Do you think it might no longer be needed at some point?
I have a son and a daughter by marriage - and I was quite shocked at how both children struggled with gender images. My generation still grew up believing that boys were the winners of the gender lottery, but that is not and never has been the case. Some people think that feminism means that men have to give up something so that women get more. But it's not like that! Nobody should be worse off so that I can be better off, but we have to change the structures together.

A very nice closing, Mithu. But I still have one more question: you've lived and worked in Oberbilk for many years. What nice places can you recommend in your neighborhood?
I like the Moroccan stores because you can get the best vegetables and the freshest fish here. I also love the Volksgarten, which gives me back my sanity. And of course the farmers' market, which takes place every Thursday on Lessingplatz, but is unfortunately getting smaller and smaller. Maybe more traders will come if more people shop there again? That's what I'd like to see!

More information on International Women's Day.

Text: Katja Vaders
Photos: Uwe Kraft